You're A Rapist!

[Sem]

31. If you penetrate her anally, orally or digitally against her will then YOU my friend, are ALSO a rapist.

Can someone implement this into the training of police officers? Seriously. It's kinda bullshit when a cop laughs at you and says "So he fingered you. Even if he held you down for it, it's not rape. You're pathetic."

.....and yeah this thread should be moved to rape support section. A whole lot of actual rape victims could get triggered by this entire post.

This is trained in your state.

By definition:

    "Sexual penetration" means any contact, however slight, between the sex organ or anus of one person and an object or the sex organ, mouth, or anus of another person, or any intrusion, however slight, of any part of the body of one person or of any animal or object into the sex organ or anus of another person, including, but not limited to, cunnilingus, fellatio, or anal penetration. Evidence of emission of semen is not required to prove sexual penetration.




    (720 ILCS 5/11-1.20) (was 720 ILCS 5/12-13)
    Sec. 11-1.20. Criminal sexual assault.
    (a) A person commits criminal sexual assault if that person commits an act of sexual penetration and:
        (1) uses force or threat of force;
        (2) knows that the victim is unable to understand the
       
nature of the act or is unable to give knowing consent;
        (3) is a family member of the victim, and the victim
       
is under 18 years of age; or
        (4) is 17 years of age or over and holds a position
       
of trust, authority, or supervision in relation to the victim, and the victim is at least 13 years of age but under 18 years of age.
    (b) Sentence.
        (1) Criminal sexual assault is a Class 1 felony,
       
except that:
            (A) A person who is convicted of the offense of
           
criminal sexual assault as defined in paragraph (a)(1) or (a)(2) after having previously been convicted of the offense of criminal sexual assault or the offense of exploitation of a child, or who is convicted of the offense of criminal sexual assault as defined in paragraph (a)(1) or (a)(2) after having previously been convicted under the laws of this State or any other state of an offense that is substantially equivalent to the offense of criminal sexual assault or to the offense of exploitation of a child, commits a Class X felony for which the person shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 30 years and not more than 60 years, except that if the person is under the age of 18 years at the time of the offense, he or she shall be sentenced under Section 5-4.5-105 of the Unified Code of Corrections. The commission of the second or subsequent offense is required to have been after the initial conviction for this paragraph (A) to apply.
            (B) A person who has attained the age of 18 years
           
at the time of the commission of the offense and who is convicted of the offense of criminal sexual assault as defined in paragraph (a)(1) or (a)(2) after having previously been convicted of the offense of aggravated criminal sexual assault or the offense of predatory criminal sexual assault of a child, or who is convicted of the offense of criminal sexual assault as defined in paragraph (a)(1) or (a)(2) after having previously been convicted under the laws of this State or any other state of an offense that is substantially equivalent to the offense of aggravated criminal sexual assault or the offense of predatory criminal sexual assault of a child shall be sentenced to a term of natural life imprisonment. The commission of the second or subsequent offense is required to have been after the initial conviction for this paragraph (B) to apply. An offender under the age of 18 years at the time of the commission of the offense covered by this subparagraph (B) shall be sentenced under Section 5-4.5-105 of the Unified Code of Corrections.
            (C) A second or subsequent conviction for a
           
violation of paragraph (a)(3) or (a)(4) or under any similar statute of this State or any other state for any offense involving criminal sexual assault that is substantially equivalent to or more serious than the sexual assault prohibited under paragraph (a)(3) or (a)(4) is a Class X felony.
(Source: P.A. 99-69, eff. 1-1-16.)


 

[MamaMeadow]

LOL not when the cops blatantly tell you to your face they have better things to do than consider that rape. You get harassed at the very first stop on the road to justice.

[PervOtaku]

Most of the is list variations on the theme of "If she said no you raped her" which is redundant but fine.

12. If you don't bother to ask her permission and she says neither 'Yes' or 'No' then you could be a rapist.

This may be the most honest thing on the list, since it steps it down to could be. I suspect this goes mostly with these:

2. You are a rapist if you find a drunk girl and have sex with her.
3. You are a rapist if you get yourself drunk and have sex with her. Your drunkeness is no excuse.
4. If you are BOTH drunk you may still be a rapist.

Number 2 I presume it's implied the guy here is sober. Number 3 I presume it's implied the girl is saying no or resisting. Number 4 though, also steps it down to could.

Because let's face it, if you're a drunk horny guy, maybe you are decent enough to not molest the girl passed out in a bedroom, but you are still hoping to find a drunk horny girl to get lucky with. Neither of you are really in any condition to make proper judgements about who to fuck in the first place, let's admit that also. Drunken hookups are just a bad idea to begin with. When sober if she wants to fuck it's pretty obvious even without a verbal "yes". When drunk, the ability to give and read nonverbal cues is very much in doubt, and lots of things seem like a good idea that you would ordinarily consider a bad idea.

It does strike me that the two main ploys of the intentionally rapebaiting girls I've been reading about are pretend to be passed out at a frat party, and cocktease then refuse at a dive bar, both are places where the guys are drinking. For non-acquaintance rape, alcohol helps grease the skids as it were, making an argument for limiting your intake if you don't want to be one of the guys described on the list.

Stuff like this also gets me wondering, how many guys actually feel entitled to sex under one of the listed conditions, and how many know they aren't and rape anyway because they are perfectly willing to be a bad person? I.e. would the response to the list be "Oh, I never thought of it that way" or "Yeah, so?"

The psychology of it all is interesting in terms of making rape fantasy scenarios more "realistic", though it does give pause when you think about the men out there that actually do victimize women.

[MamaMeadow]

^ I agree with most of that post, the only part I feel the need to comment on is this::::

"When sober if she wants to fuck it's pretty obvious even without a verbal "yes"."

------ you'd think so. Loooootttttssssss of guys have fucked-up interpretations of what consent really is.
And THAT is the EXACT reason why we NEED to make sure consent is given.

I once had someone say to me "soooo you're saying, I need to, EVERY SINGLE TIME, make sure she gives consent? I have to verbally hear it from her?? Ask her EVERY TIME?? Talk about killing the mood!"

A few things:
1) yes, you MUST. Every single time. Better safe than sorry. And idk about you, but I wanna make sure any sexual act I participate in, is consented to by both (or more) parties involved.
Honestly, the fact that this angers people, genuinely frightens me.

2) If it kills the mood, something is very wrong in your relationship. My husband and I have been establishing consent, every single time, for 8 years now and not once has it EVER "killed the mood".
Not only is it quick and easy to do, but you can get right back to sexy time! *GASP!* Imagine that, folks!!!!

[Carlosdevil]

One other point I want to make about this subject. A lot of times we look at things as really black and white - if he does A then he's a rapist, if he does B then he's not. It isn't always the case. One thing that even feminists (and I consider myself one) have to remember - NOT EVERYTHING IS ABSOLUTE! Every instance is different and before we tar every man with the same brush, we need to look at the circumstances and the personalities involved.

Certainly if a woman says no and he continues fucking her anyway, that IS an absolute. Pestering someone for an hour until she says yes is an absolute (although in an instance like that, a woman is better advised to leave and get away from the assclown who has difficulty with two-letter words). But some of the things on that list are really grey areas and don't take into account the dynamics of a relationship. Some women like to be chased and if the man is playing into her fantasy, then it's NOT FUCKING RAPE.

The best way to make sure is for both parties to communicate with each other in a clear and unambiguous manner. But that's just my opinion...

[Ihaveneeds]

Just because she’s attracted to you does not mean she’s given consent.

Saw a research article recently that suggested as many as 50% of 18-25 year old men (and I bet jt’s Not just the young ones. That was just the target sample) confused obvious signs of attraction as given consent for intercourse.

Frightening.

[RayPistonprowl]

@Ihaveneeds I saw that study. The # was more like 30pc though.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/09/college-men-commit-rape-study_n_6445510.html

What was most interesting to me was that the wording of the question affected the answers, but they essentially asked the same question.

eg.
Q: Would you act on intentions to force a woman to sexual intercourse if you could get away with it?
Most answered yes.
alternate way of asking it:
Q: Would you act on intentions to rape a woman if you could get away with it?
Most answered no. Same bloody question, lads.

[Ihaveneeds]

I’m sure this has been posted somewhere here before. It is hilarious and applicable though, so...

https://youtu.be/9E10fp_5PvE

[wrigglingbeauty]

Many things listed on that list are totally different if you view them from a couple that has been together or a guy who finds a tipsy girl at a party he just met as an example. But it all comes down respect and common sense.

[mrmeeseeks]

Yeah I think people have covered most of the other points on the list, but I'd like to focus specifically on the ones pertaining to alcohol. You or your partner being inebriated does not make either one of you a rapist, period point blank. The point at which sex under the influence becomes rape, is at the point where one of you decides you've had enough, and the other keeps going. EXACTLY THE SAME AS SOBER SEX. Also it should be obvious that drugging someone to affect their lucidity or decision making is unacceptable, here I'm assuming prior familiarity and initial consent. Having sex drunk or high is one of the most intensely pleasurable experiences available to you as a human being. If you dont believe so then try MDMA or LSD and masturbate, you will most likely change your mind in the blink of an eye. The problem with being inebriated during sex is that the experience may becoming overwhelming for one of the parties involved (most likely the female), and the other party may not notice or be less inclined to care in their intoxicated state. This is the true nature of the danger. However, the same rules apply here as they do when sober, CONTROL YOURSELF. Know your limit, and dont go beyond the point where you can control your own mind. I can get reasonably sloppy without browning out or completely losing sense of self, but some people drop out of reality after one shot or a few puffs. Taper your dose accordingly, and pay attention to your partner.

Males:
Be responsible and control your libido. If your partner isnt on BC or sterile, I dont care how slammed you are, WEAR A CONDOM. Make it a mantra throughout the night if you have to, this usually works very well when dealing with alcohol or psychedelics. Mutter it to yourself over and over like its a song you cant get out of your head. You should also write it on your arm in sharpie marker. Monitor your partner and gauge her reactions; if you can't tell then STOP MOVING AND ASK HER. Do not continue until you receive an answer. Think about how able you would be to voice complaints in your state, and then realize that most women have 1/4 the tolerance to drugs. You have the biggest responsibility here. She isnt going anywhere, so take it easy and you can nut your brains out all night long.

Females:
Make sure your partner is trustworthy; don't be fickle and you'll be fine. Be clear, concise and loud if it goes to far. But also dont cheat yourself out of a lifechanging orgasm constantly pausing, you may just aggravate your partner to the point where he leaves and jacks off in the bathroom ;D.

[RopeNRoughness]

Good list for the most part, but it has a lot of redundant points that I realise are trying to drive the point home and make it clear, but I think it may make it not reach the people who need to hear it, because it can start to come across as condescending (to men).  But everyone's different and comes from different backgrounds, so we need a variety of approaches to educating people on consent.

For me personally, I didn't really start to understand the nuance around consent and communication until I started reading personal anecdotes.  One that stood out to me was from a man who always asked before he did anything with a partner and he was once with a woman who was overwhelmed by all the questions.  "Is this OK?  Are you OK for me to touch me here?" and so on.  For this woman, she wanted to let things flow and she would speak up if she wanted him to stop.

I think an important part of consent that is left out of a lot of messages like this list is that consent is about communication, not asking for a yes or no before every sexual action.  You can discuss before you even touch each other what you're OK with, and what to do if either starts to feel uncomfortable.  It's not that consent isn't absolute; it's that consent is communication, and communication is nuanced.