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Author Topic: A gem from RD: Good Dominance  (Read 579 times)

Offline Ella

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A gem from RD: Good Dominance
« on: July 17, 2016, 05:00:21 AM »
I just found this gem in my Google Docs. I found a folder titled "RD" with a few files in it. I haven't looked at them all yet. This is just the first.

Apparently, someone had posted a long thing about what constituted a good dominant (man). It looks like I created the file to more easily comment, so you'll have to read the original post around my comments.

My comments, clearly, were made before I got engaged to [member=1785]LSJ[/member] , and would be different if i were to make them now, because I have some experience as a submissive, which I didn't have then. Back then, I was just figuring out that I was submissive. Some of it, though, is still a mystery to me.

Anyway, here goes.
---------------------------------

I'm going to respond to this piece by piece because I think there's more here than has been said so far.

Quote from: Shroud;357803
Finding a man is no easy task for submissive ladies. It seems many women do not understand the red flags signaling "Beware."

Apparently. I wasn't looking for a dominant man, just a good one, and I didn't see any flags of any color.

Quote
- A dominant man will not start off by with, 'Bow down on your knees upon receipt of my message!' … Ignore the Insta-Dom.

Yes. Definitely. No need to comment here.

Quote
- A dominant man will not seem 'desperate' for your attention. Getting dates or getting laid is not his problem... He knows women, and women are drawn to him.

A guy I used to spend a lot of time around had this effect on me. I got to know him because I was drawn to him. We spent a lot of time together talking in the middle of the night. If he had made a move on me, I think I would have let him take me to bed. I can't say that about anyone else on earth because I am not easy or promiscuous. I just trusted him. He wasn't a gentle, sweet guy. He was a direct, smart, serious guy with a good sense of humor. (Serious but funny? Yes, serious but funny.)

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- A dominant man most often will be successful, a maverick, or at least happy in his chosen profession. If he has had some bad luck in his past, it will be fleeting, for he will strive relentlessly to place his universe back into the order mandatory to his existence.

This part of it just sounds like a man who know who he is and has high standards for himself.

Quote
- A dominant man will be very interested in you, and not just your sexual needs... He will see you as a puzzle, and desire to make sense of that puzzle.... Submissive women are the most challenging of lovers for they have great fantasy. Their fantasies often require a man to move far outside normal gestures requiring both skill and creativity. How you think about a myriad of criterion will be of great interest to him.

I can't speak to this. I have no idea. I've never experienced it and for all I know could be complete hooey. If it's true, I'm interested.

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- A dominant man is likely to be damn good in the sack.

This is where it seems to break down for me.

I can see that a man who really likes women would learn everything he can about all the different ways we tick. Does a good Dom, by definition, really like women? I don't mean our bodies, I mean us. I don't have much experience with this. My friend really liked femaleness (because not all femaleness is super feminine) and enjoyed being around it. I certainly enjoyed being around him. I couldn't ever put my finger on why, either. I knew I felt safe around him, but still can't explain the rest of the effect he had on me.

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- A dominant man may have all the accoutrement of kink (the whips, chains, and whatnot), but he will not need them to be dominant. A whisper, a word, a look, a swagger, and a touch are the essence of his talent. Confidence is his weapon of choice...

Okay, maybe I can see that. I don't know about confidence as a weapon, though. Why would any man need weapons against a woman? I don't understand wanting weapons of any kind for everyday life. Tools? Sure. But weapons?

I may be picking on semantics here. I'm not sure. Words have meaning. It's important to choose the ones that say what we mean, but I don't want to destroy what the guy's trying to say just because he chose the wrong words, if that's what happened.

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- A dominant man will be very cautious in selecting you because he knows you have great desires, hopes, and dreams, and it is he that has to live up to them. Above all things he will wish to be good for you. He attempts to choose wisely but may at first make many mistakes in his choices as he finds his way.

Any savvy person is cautious in choosing a partner, whether for business, sex or marriage. Are Doms savvy by definition? I don't see how that can be true. There are lots of different kinds of intelligence.

Setting aside the topic of intelligence, let's talk about a dominant man's desire to be a good experience for his submissive. What about that? Is a Dominant more likely to want to please his partner than any other man? Again, I have no experience here.

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- A dominant man will make mistakes and have no fear admitting them. The dominant guy knows he is not All Knowing, for he is human. A guy who believes he never makes mistakes or does not admit to them with good cheer is most likely not dominant.

I love a man who's willing to admit when he's wrong. It's one of several traits that makes me feel safe. My dad's not a Dom, but he possess this trait in abundance. How much of this is about being a good man and how much is about being a good Dominant man?

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- A dominant man will never send you a cock shot at first greeting and it is highly unlikely that he'll have one on his profile.

Let's just say that no grownup does this and move on, okay?

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- A dominant man will not beg you for naked photographs. In fact, he won't beg for anything. He will simply wait till you're dying to send him your naughty pictures unsolicited and accept them with lordly composure (or a rock hard-on, depending on the photo).

The "lordly composure" bit makes me roll my eyes, but the point is still good. Begging isn't exactly inspiring of confidence or trust; it's more schoolyard than bedroom.

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- A dominant man will never lie about being married or already having a girlfriend. If he's married to vanilla, he'll simply say so. …  If he's cheating on his vanilla wife, he will say so. He made his choice and is going for it.

Quote from: RayPistonprowl;357824
A dominant man respects himself and his partners.
Quote from: Vinum_Sabbathi;358902
A good dom is a good person.

No good man cheats. I don't see a single exception to this. I refer to Ray and Vinum, above, to make my point. Cheating isn't respectful and doesn't make one a good person.

Quote
- A dominant man won't lie about much, though he surely will keep some of his thoughts from you.

This is an assumption that every dominant man is a good man. Again, I don't see how this can be true. I distrust "every" "all" and "never" statements.

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The lying 'dom' will have an agenda that has no bearing on your needs. … The real dominant guy wants no part of someone for whom he cannot be good.

This speaks to maturity and ethics, in my opinion. I don't know enough to say whether it also speaks to Dominance.

Quote
- A dominant man will not be heavy handed in his approach. He will be skilled at drawing you in, opening you up, making you feel at ease or on edge (depending on his tastes). His efforts will seem effortless; even aloof at times. He will grow on you. Capture you. Enlighten you and make things seem clear that may have been once blurry. You will feel better about yourself when communicating with him (even if your desire is to live in debasement!). Only an impostor will try to tear you down in order to raise himself to higher ground. The dominate [sic] gets off by watching you soar, not fall.
Some of this speaks to style, some of it to charm, some of it to goodness.

It's abusive to tear someone down in order to raise oneself up. So he's saying that a dominant man is not abusive. That's been covered and I hope it's true. I've had quite enough of that, TYVM.

The rest of it... it seemed to be true for my dominant friend, the one I talked about earlier. That doesn't mean it's true for every dominant. I don't have enough information to speak to this, either.

Quote
In essence, taking on a submissive is both invigorating and empowering yet also a humbling experience. He may err constantly, particularly if he is new. Yet he will always, always strive to be better, and though he longs and seeks challenge, he will avoid that which he knows he cannot handle, or will in some near future be unable to handle. It may take time but he will understand his own limits as well as his woman's.

I hope it's humbling; taking responsibility for any other person should be humbling. Being invigorated or empowered, striving to be better, seeking challenge... these are character traits that couldn't apply to all dominants any more than they could to all men. They may be traits the original writer and Shroud share, which is why they both aspire to it.

Quote
A submissive is a truckload of challenge... so the dominant man needs you like he needs air. He wants your worship not simply for worship sake but because he has... ventured into the realm of risk... THAT alone is why he seeks your worship; because he has earned it and deserves it.

"Worship" is a strong word. Can someone explain this to me? I don't think I get it.

Quote from: Lil-Mac;358368
Doing your best to please your partner, to make her happy, to keep her safe has absolutely nothing to do with being a Dom.

It has everything to do with being a Man.

I miss that so much. I love maleness, masculinity. I especially love it when it's focused on me for my benefit and I can melt right into it. 'sigh'

Offline EssenceofRed

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Re: A gem from RD: Good Dominance
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2016, 10:34:33 AM »
I don't know that I agree with the original poster. Much of the traits he described could be said for me, and I'm a submissive female little! A person can be confident, successful, and know who they are and what they want without being a dominant man. A lot of that first stuff rubs me the wrong way. Dare I say, it almost reads more nasrasistic than Dominant. I need to think about why I'm having such an adverse reaction to the first part. Maybe because the blanket statements feel more like king sized sheets. Or maybe because I know excellent Doms and Dommes (online and in person) who might not fit every one of those boxes perfectly. I find it almost eyeroll inducing that he's describing the most perfect human and is counting himself in that category. I call shenanigans on his definition.
:footstomp:

With that said, some of the later stuff by other posters is valid. I may or may not be back to elaborate.
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Offline RayPistonprowl

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Re: A gem from RD: Good Dominance
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2016, 07:12:23 PM »
I don't know that I agree with the original poster.

I know I don't. I remember and like LordShroud and remember this thread on RD but I've never agreed with much of what he had to say in this thread back then. I wonder if he would say something different several years down the line now as well. I haven't got time to get into specifics tonight, but I've been plenty vocal here about how I view insta-doms and their entitled attitude and belief that they were born to dominate. It's possible to have an assertive personality (I argue that's simple maturity) but that should never be mistaken for 'dominance'. Neither should a lack of assertion/maturity be mistaken for submissiveness!
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Once in awhile, I have just dirty nasty slam the salami into the cringing hole of mystery repeatedly until she's good and truly fucked. -Carlosdevil

Offline Ella

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Re: A gem from RD: Good Dominance
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2016, 06:39:47 AM »
I think I should have said "gem", in quotes.

Reading my reply to the OP, I can see that I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt because of my nearly- complete lack of knowledge of the subject at the time. I wish I had used the terms "pontificating" and "cock-brain" in my reply. Oh, well.

Offline RayPistonprowl

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Re: A gem from RD: Good Dominance
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2017, 02:10:17 PM »
I don't know that I agree with the original poster.

I know I don't. I remember and like LordShroud and remember this thread on RD but I've never agreed with much of what he had to say in this thread back then. I wonder if he would say something different several years down the line now as well. I haven't got time to get into specifics tonight, but I've been plenty vocal here about how I view insta-doms and their entitled attitude and belief that they were born to dominate. It's possible to have an assertive personality (I argue that's simple maturity) but that should never be mistaken for 'dominance'. Neither should a lack of assertion/maturity be mistaken for submissiveness!

So I wrote the above more than a year ago. Since then someone brought to my attention that the entire idea of a 'dominant alpha male' as an innate personality type was based on a study of wolf pack dominance/submission that some scientists attempted to apply to human behaviour as well. Unfortunately, the original study was flawed, so its results were later disavowed by the very scientists who posited it to begin with.

Suffice to say that the 'alpha male' is a debunked myth. The problem with the original study is that the scientists were studying captive wolves who were forced together into an artificial pack, so they were working out how to survive together, but such traits do not emerge in wild packs who form naturally not from strange wolves but from parents and offspring. So 'dominance' isn't forcing another wolf to submit, it's simply being a parent and nurturer whose guidance is sought naturally by juveniles wanting to learn to survive.



Website of the original scientist who since disavowed the concept: http://www.davemech.org/news.html
Quote
One of the outdated pieces of information is the concept of the alpha wolf. "Alpha" implies competing with others and becoming top dog by winning a contest or battle. However, most wolves who lead packs achieved their position simply by mating and producing pups, which then became their pack. In other words they are merely breeders, or parents, and that's all we call them today, the "breeding male," "breeding female," or "male parent," "female parent," or the "adult male" or "adult female."

Point is, nothing innate about it. Dominance is transitory, depending on the environment, and isn't some immutable inborn characteristic.
I could end you if you ask me nicely. I could make it slow and painful if you like. So you'll have the opportunity to reflect on the sadness that is you and the awesomeness that is me. -Miss Andrey
Verily I Xeroxed Everyone's Nipples. -cosmicwitch
Once in awhile, I have just dirty nasty slam the salami into the cringing hole of mystery repeatedly until she's good and truly fucked. -Carlosdevil

Offline WilliamDarked

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Re: A gem from RD: Good Dominance
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2017, 04:08:29 PM »
Being a dom 101?

Offline Ingenue

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Re: A gem from RD: Good Dominance
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2017, 06:08:03 PM »
The original post reads like one long defensive No True Scotsman argument with a large side of wish fulfillment and Barnum effect. :shrug: But I don't know much about d/s so that may be just my own cynicism/fear/mistrust about men and dominants.

Ray, you're absolutely right. Alpha/beta/omega theory is debunked. Dog trainers who use it do more harm than good; if it works, it's more by accident than design. *insert rant lol*
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 07:58:34 PM by Ingenue »
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Offline olderguyhere4u

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Re: A gem from RD: Good Dominance
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2018, 06:57:48 PM »
Wow there is a lot here to unpack, and thank you Ella for posting this! I will completely agree that good Doms are NOT misogynistic (which seems to be a leading theme, yes?) ...

 

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