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Author Topic: So you THINK you're a Dominant huh?  (Read 5912 times)

Offline GermanChick

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Re: So you THINK you're a Dominant huh?
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2015, 06:15:43 PM »
I think we can all agree that speaking in 'absolutes' at any time is the crux of the problem. That and generalizing.



Articles like the OP's generate discussion (if the general atmosphere is supportive of it, which I think it is - not trying to imply that it isn't) and allows people to gage THEIR experiences and feelings against other's. Only communication will allow us to learn and gain a better understanding of ourselves and others around us. The OP is not total "shite and bollocks", it has some good information and explains a lot of things that to the novice are hard to grasp, so if it even helps one person to gain a better understanding I'm happy :)


That's all I really wanted to achieve -



Offline RayPistonprowl

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Re: So you THINK you're a Dominant huh?
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2015, 06:50:16 PM »
Shite and bollocks, eh? Wonder who that was directed at?  :smh:

And that same article does a lot of damage to novice wot haven't yet learnt enough to know better. It's all information to assemble.

EDIT: Apologies to @GermanChick . Her post appeared angry to me and she's written to explain she wasn't having a go at me. I'll leave it there.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 07:38:03 AM by RayPistonprowl »
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Offline RayPistonprowl

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Re: So you THINK you're a Dominant huh?
« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2015, 08:22:42 AM »
Anyroad. Just clarifying that it's one particular hot button issue that's set off my alarms in GC's original article, and I did try to confine my criticism to that one bit. I didn't issue a blanket condemnation of the entire article. I said there are certainly parts that will benefit novices.

The bit that set me off was what Addie termed 'role essentialism', though I like Ingy's 'role fundamentalism' even better. :D

The reason it annoys me is ( I'll try to explain it again, as I'm clearly doing a shite and bollocks job of it ;) ) that certain sorts of people in the BDSM community are not satisfied with dominant or sub, or top or bottom, but split hairs on the roles to try to redefine them. The problem is that their motivations for redefining these roles are entirely based in their self-serving needs to be Better Than Thou, or Dommiest Dom that Ever Dommed, or Subbiest Subslavething Evar. Then you get dominants who don't get that their ROLE is to be subtly directed by the sub (hence the sub has the real power) so when their sub does what they're supposed to do and subtly directs the action, the dominant gets a bee up his bum because they don't ask 'how high' when told to jump, so suddenly these doms brand such subs 'not real subs', or 'brats', or 'SAMs' (smart ass masochists), or 'topping from the bottom' or 'switches' or any number of other derogatory terms meant to belittle the sub. These doms' arguments amount to 'if you were really a sub, you'd do what I tell you to.' That's coercive and precisely the opposite of what responsible BDSM practitioners would advise.

And subs are not immune from trying to one-up each other either. It would be one thing if they were just trying to describe themselves or their individual styles better, but the motivation for this hairsplitting is inevitably that they want to broadcast that they are Subbier Than Thou, because a Very Small Portion of the BDSM community consist of 'Real Subs' who are 'born that way' and have some burning 'need' to submit, while the rest of you subs are just wannabes or Not Quite Subs or otherwise inferior. Then you get hair-splitting like 'sexual submissives' and 'psychological submissives' and 'natural submissives', as in the article GC posted. @Addie pointed out in that one sub's article how that sub does not identify as a 'psychological sub' or any other sort of sub but conveniently as a 'true submissive'. Of course! The only reason she seems to need that definition is to prove she's the real deal, implying others aren't. I've seen that so many times that I can't help but roll my eyes. There's always an ulterior motive.

If you're questioning what I'm describing, have a look at this sample Wikipedia page showcasing the bickering over BDSM's page: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=BDSM&diff=next&oldid=635158013
Just note all the hairsplitting on the different types of subs and doms, and how one person's attempt to simplify all that bollocks back to BDSM's original definitions meets with all sorts of resistance.  This is hotly contested stuff amongst that subset who want to redefine the basics. The basics are simple: the dom/top is the giver of psychological or physical sensation, and the sub/bottom is the receiver. There's simply no need to pervert it beyond that.

Once again, the reason this shite matters is because the people trying to redefine the basics are opening up the original definitions to manipulation by abusers. Abusers are coercive, and subs who decide that they can't be subs without being The Subbiest Natural Slave Ever Born open themselves up to a mindset that erodes barriers that were originally there for a bloody reason. Subs who only submit during discrete scenes are NOT less-than-submissive, they're just using common sense and not putting more trust in a dominant than he or she has earnt.

I'll stop there for now.
I always worry about clicking on what you send me. -the savage, to Ingenue (LOL)
Like Pepe LePew, sometimes you just gotta take the pussy. -The Demented Wizard
Listen up you cretinfaced knobcheese...you need to back the fuck truck up and park yerself in it. -wetslut
Who burns their tits on the stove while boiling water? I'll tell you. This chick does. -southernbelle
There's nothing like coming home and taking off your bra after a long, hard day of having boobs. -lysyn

Offline RayPistonprowl

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Re: So you THINK you're a Dominant huh?
« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2015, 08:47:48 AM »
I don't accept that everyone who's relatively powerless in real life wants to be powerful in the bedroom because I don't. Other than being picky about limits, which I am. It's relaxing to let my roleplay partner do most of the innovating.

GC, I see your point about what you consider roleplaying - it's a bit different for me as I'm not a real life rapist but enjoy playing that role. I can enjoy playing both dom and sub - if I really want the focus to be on me, I'll play the sub role.  If I want to craft a scene that is designed largely for my partner, I"ll play dominant. But there are certainly sorts of roles I don't feel attracted to playing at all, such as those that conflict with my limits.

I identify as a dominant woman and can tell you from experience that because of role essentialism, many men who otherwise identified as dominant would come to me in secret for sub sessions because they got sick of having to explain to others that submissive men are not sissies or doormats or any other negative term. The preconception of men being dominant and women being submissive is pretty ingrained, and they just get tired of battling it. Also, just because they switch from time to time does not mean they are switches, or undecided, or any other negative connotation. They are not dominants trying to top from the bottom, or "do-me subs". They've just decided they want the pressure off for a bit, and submission allows them to relax. Who doesn't want that from time to time?

Just pointing out a wee something about sub/dom roles. :)
I always worry about clicking on what you send me. -the savage, to Ingenue (LOL)
Like Pepe LePew, sometimes you just gotta take the pussy. -The Demented Wizard
Listen up you cretinfaced knobcheese...you need to back the fuck truck up and park yerself in it. -wetslut
Who burns their tits on the stove while boiling water? I'll tell you. This chick does. -southernbelle
There's nothing like coming home and taking off your bra after a long, hard day of having boobs. -lysyn

Offline Addie

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Re: So you THINK you're a Dominant huh?
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2015, 03:29:51 PM »
The reason it annoys me is ( I'll try to explain it again, as I'm clearly doing a shite and bollocks job of it ;) ) that certain sorts of people in the BDSM community are not satisfied with dominant or sub, or top or bottom, but split hairs on the roles to try to redefine them.

I have limited time right now and will have to break up my replies into pieces, but for now I'll tackle the above.

I think it's important to recognize that these roles and definitions are constantly evolving, for both better and worse. I got the feeling from what I did read of your post that you are glorifying some golden age of BDSM in which everything was well defined and agreed upon, and that just never happened! XD

For instance, early sadism/masochism (from which BDSM evolved) had only the vaguest concept of consent. It's only within the last 30 years that "Switches" were accepted as legitimate people and not just fake doms or subs. Read about the gay origins of top and bottom and the Leathermen "Old Guard" of post-WWII and you'll get a feel for their disdain for switches and especially effeminate men! BDSM largely germinated in the gay community, and the straight BDSM community borrowed their top/bottom terminology, and from there it proliferated into dominance/submission and all the different flavors that have led to the abuse you speak of. I just want to make sure you're clear on that!

There are some concepts that are broadly agreed upon now in mainstream BDSM though, such as consent being rescindable at all times, even for people who are participating in a TPE (total power exchange), and the common knowledge that the real power always lies with the submissive, never the dominant (no matter how much some instadoms would like to see this otherwise). The submissive is invariably in the more vulnerable role, so that dynamic can't change without abuse creeping in.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 03:34:48 PM by Addie »

Offline Ingenue

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Re: So you THINK you're a Dominant huh?
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2015, 06:29:52 PM »
The submissive is invariably in the more vulnerable role, so that dynamic can't change without abuse creeping in.

QFT. :thumbs:
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Offline Dark Desire

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Re: So you THINK you're a Dominant huh?
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2015, 06:54:00 PM »
I'd like to weigh in and this is purely from my point of view. I am not a professional, I only dabble with BDSM so take it for what you will but please understand it works for me.

IRL the only bondage I've done is some spanking, some bondage and needing the illusion of having control sexually. Yes I know it is only an illusion but I've been lucky in being with women who didn't mind or didn't even know that is what I was using whatever for that. I could go into that deeper and might another time.

On here I do play at being a Dom, a kind and caring one. For some it has worked out well and for some it hasn't. IMHO all of my play partners were great. For me I don't care what they wanted to call themselves as long as they were safe and happy. I hope I didn't abuse any of them and maybe I did even manage to help some of them in someway. I do know that as with the rape fantasy, (and quite a few wonderful people on here), it has helped me be alright with me which I needed and which is still a work in progress.

I liked the original post because it did (to me) stress about not being abusive and finding your own way, not being a sub or Dom in this or that way because that is what you were told that is what it requires of you. Yes I didn't like some stuff in it but I did think it was good overall.

Maybe I am doing it wrong, all I know is it makes me happy and it has helped me come to grips with me in the way I chose to play. As I said I hope the people I have played with mostly had fun even though there have been a couple of ugly break ups which I take full responsibility for.

Offline Vex Malleus

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Re: So you THINK you're a Dominant huh?
« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2015, 11:50:43 PM »
I'm a switch and can easily go both ways, altho my g/f and I haven't "played" in awhile.. :(
-=<>=-

Offline Addie

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Re: So you THINK you're a Dominant huh?
« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2015, 03:30:08 PM »
Ok, I'm back for another round. :boxer:

I didn't issue a blanket condemnation of the entire article.

Actually you kinda did, Raymondo. XD

I didn't get very far before my eyes rolled, GC. When I got to this crap I stopped reading [...] I can only read so much twaddle in a sitting. :headwall:

He's parroting lots of helpful info that I've seen said better elsewhere


^ You?  :bateyes:

This is hotly contested stuff amongst that subset who want to redefine the basics. The basics are simple: the dom/top is the giver of psychological or physical sensation, and the sub/bottom is the receiver. There's simply no need to pervert it beyond that.

I agree with the above, though you will still find plenty of BDSM practitioners who think there's a meaningful difference between a top and a dominant, and a bottom and a sub. The main reason they try to make these distinctions is that sometimes a dominant may want to switch and be the receiver of sensation for a while (or vice versa), in which case they'll ask a "service top" who is not dominant to allow them to overtly direct them in whatever sensations they want to experience. I find that distinction to be insulting and useless, and grounded in a fear of being seen as less-than-dominant just because you want to relax and be the receiver for a while. It's what Ray described earlier as ingrained misperceptions about the OTHER role making you fear being perceived as that role.

Similarly I understand Germanchick doesn't identify in the least with playing the dominant role, but read that last sentence above again. When you reframe the role as simply giver of sensation, what's to be afraid of? Why is it out of character to enjoy watching a submissive squirm and writhe and moan (and smile) with the sensation you're delivering? There isn't a person on this planet who can't enjoy giving a partner what they want (within your own limits). It's true you can be born with certain characteristics that make you think you're predisposed towards one role or the other, but you should never mistake meekness for submissiveness, or bluster and ego for dominance. And as Ray said, we don't fantasize about what we already are. We fantasize about what we want to be. So the opposites attract rule is true a great deal of the time.

I can't begin to tell you how many men over the years I've watched come into BDSM in their "frenzy" period and received the "revelation" that they were born dominant, were always dominant, and could never be submissive -- because they've internalized the nonsense that "real men aren't submissive". This idea is worst in men of Hispanic, Mediterranean, Middle Eastern, and Russian origin, because machismo is so culturally ingrained from the time they can walk! The Leathermen, who were originally gay soldiers from the post-WWII period, would not accept effeminate men into their organization because culture and the military had drilled into their heads that a man emulating a woman (and her submissiveness) was the worst thing imaginable. Even today heads turn when you hear of a stay-at-home dad, because he must be reaaaaally pussy-whipped if he agreed to that! :rolleyes:

I think it's a good idea for everyone to assume the opposite role of the one they think they were born as just so they can experience, for instance, just how much effort on the dominant's part goes into crafting a scene around a sub's preferences, and how draining it can be to constantly attend to someone else's needs; likewise every dom should play the sub role so they get a handle on just how vulnerable they are in that role -- and how much trust it takes for the sub to give that control up. The worst that happens is you become better at your chosen role.

Subs who only submit during discrete scenes are NOT less-than-submissive, they're just using common sense and not putting more trust in a dominant than he or she has earnt.

Damn skippy.  :thumbs:
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 03:32:58 PM by Addie »

Offline RayPistonprowl

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Re: So you THINK you're a Dominant huh?
« Reply #39 on: April 24, 2015, 04:03:29 PM »
The submissive is invariably in the more vulnerable role, so that dynamic can't change without abuse creeping in.

QFT. :thumbs:

I had to look that shit up. You kids and your acronyms. *olds furiously*
I always worry about clicking on what you send me. -the savage, to Ingenue (LOL)
Like Pepe LePew, sometimes you just gotta take the pussy. -The Demented Wizard
Listen up you cretinfaced knobcheese...you need to back the fuck truck up and park yerself in it. -wetslut
Who burns their tits on the stove while boiling water? I'll tell you. This chick does. -southernbelle
There's nothing like coming home and taking off your bra after a long, hard day of having boobs. -lysyn

Offline RayPistonprowl

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Re: So you THINK you're a Dominant huh?
« Reply #40 on: April 24, 2015, 04:08:48 PM »
 :rofl: Addie grumpycatted me. Touche, bitch!

Yeah, I've been a grumpycat. You lot keep me up too late so I've been sleep-deprived.  :uhoh:  :troll:
Any case, apologies for being a bit of a dick.

There really isn't much I disagreed with there so I guess I'll fap that post. :fap:

PS go ahead and fap this post if you think I've been a dick. Go on, I can take it. :watchout:
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 04:10:50 PM by RayPistonprowl »
I always worry about clicking on what you send me. -the savage, to Ingenue (LOL)
Like Pepe LePew, sometimes you just gotta take the pussy. -The Demented Wizard
Listen up you cretinfaced knobcheese...you need to back the fuck truck up and park yerself in it. -wetslut
Who burns their tits on the stove while boiling water? I'll tell you. This chick does. -southernbelle
There's nothing like coming home and taking off your bra after a long, hard day of having boobs. -lysyn

Offline Ingenue

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Re: So you THINK you're a Dominant huh?
« Reply #41 on: April 24, 2015, 05:55:45 PM »
to enjoy watching a submissive squirm and writhe and moan (and smile) with the sensation you're delivering

hmm... :drool:
Fucking fuckity fuck flaps bollocks. ~wetslut
Ingy your twat was so tight it felt like a squillion rubber bands cutting off my willy's circulation. ~RayPistonprowl
god i love her
lets torture her and then fuck on top of her ~the savage


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Offline RayPistonprowl

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Re: So you THINK you're a Dominant huh?
« Reply #42 on: April 24, 2015, 06:02:26 PM »
to enjoy watching a submissive squirm and writhe and moan (and smile) with the sensation you're delivering

hmm... :drool:

hnnnnngg :drool:
I always worry about clicking on what you send me. -the savage, to Ingenue (LOL)
Like Pepe LePew, sometimes you just gotta take the pussy. -The Demented Wizard
Listen up you cretinfaced knobcheese...you need to back the fuck truck up and park yerself in it. -wetslut
Who burns their tits on the stove while boiling water? I'll tell you. This chick does. -southernbelle
There's nothing like coming home and taking off your bra after a long, hard day of having boobs. -lysyn

Offline GermanChick

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Re: So you THINK you're a Dominant huh?
« Reply #43 on: April 24, 2015, 06:05:31 PM »
 >:)  (its a joke... for those of you that don't know me)
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 06:10:33 PM by GermanChick »

Offline Ingenue

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Re: So you THINK you're a Dominant huh?
« Reply #44 on: April 24, 2015, 06:16:12 PM »
to enjoy watching a submissive squirm and writhe and moan (and smile) with the sensation you're delivering

hmm... :drool:

hnnnnngg :drool:

I looove making teh mans squirm with happyfrustration :thumbs:
Fucking fuckity fuck flaps bollocks. ~wetslut
Ingy your twat was so tight it felt like a squillion rubber bands cutting off my willy's circulation. ~RayPistonprowl
god i love her
lets torture her and then fuck on top of her ~the savage


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